Curse

Holy Light Angel · Dec 04, 2007, 09:42 AM // 09:42

firstly all of the classes are balanced just certain builds run on those clases aer unbalanced, the warrior really kicks out some serious damage, if you really struggeling for a build (this assuems all games) try running

1. Eviserate
2. Executioners Strike
3. Shell Shock
4. Body Blow
5. Rush
6. Frenzy
7. Conjure Lightening, Frost or Flame (depend on elemental hilt ( yes your gonan need one)
8. I Am The Strongest

12 + 2 + 1 Axe
8 + 1 Strength
10 Air, Fire or Water

frenzy to spike, then rush once done using attacks, if you looking more sword based

and sword
1. Sever
2. Gash
3. Sun & Moon
4. Hundread Blades
5. Frenzy
6. Rush
7. Conjure
8. I Am The Strongest

correct use of frenzy/ rush is essential in both builds, if you cant / dont want to handel that switch to a res sig and tiger stance.

again these are just a few ideas, if you think that warriors fail at least try a build along these lines just to see what you really think, there damage output when properly used is unsupassed, accpet for aoe from an elly or dervish ofc, well not unsuparssed but a force to be fought with

Infernii · Dec 04, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

I noticed something... Armor of Earth is a 25 Energy requiring spell.
Basic Warriors have 20....
Now, I thought, life was more important than energy, in order to keep taking the damage?
Hence, I equipped my W with a heap of Vigor- and alike insignia...
Kill these, and put Energy ones instead?

Otherwise, Armor of Earth, would be a BIG nono... XD

Sandokap · Dec 04, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Don't bother with such skills. If you really want an armor boost take Watch Yourself so you don't have to spend attribute points (you'll probably have some tactics for Healing Signet), energy and you will affect all of your team.

Always remember, as a Warrior you are not a tank, you're a killing machine.

Savio · Dec 04, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Light Angel

firstly all of the classes are balanced just certain builds run on those clases aer unbalanced, the warrior really kicks out some serious damage, if you really struggeling for a build (this assuems all games) try running

1. Eviserate
2. Executioners Strike
3. Shell Shock
4. Body Blow
5. Rush
6. Frenzy
7. Conjure Lightening, Frost or Flame (depend on elemental hilt ( yes your gonan need one)
8. I Am The Strongest

12 + 2 + 1 Axe
8 + 1 Strength
10 Air, Fire or Water

frenzy to spike, then rush once done using attacks, if you looking more sword based

and sword
1. Sever
2. Gash
3. Sun & Moon
4. Hundread Blades
5. Frenzy
6. Rush
7. Conjure
8. I Am The Strongest

correct use of frenzy/ rush is essential in both builds, if you cant / dont want to handel that switch to a res sig and tiger stance.

again these are just a few ideas, if you think that warriors fail at least try a build along these lines just to see what you really think, there damage output when properly used is unsupassed, accpet for aoe from an elly or dervish ofc, well not unsuparssed but a force to be fought with

Why would you want to run Frenzy/Rush in PvE? Or Hundred Blades and Body Blow? Or Major runes?

Dr Strangelove · Dec 04, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Why would you want to run Frenzy/Rush in PvE? Or Hundred Blades and Body Blow? Or Major runes?

Body blow is somewhat nifty when combined with brawling headbutt, dragon slash, and low blow. Otherwise, not so much.

ShadowsRequiem · Dec 04, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Imo don't run very high str in pve theres not much of a point unless you want to play hammer and go for sentinals armor.
I normally go 14 weapon/9str/11tact
I dont really use any hammer in pve though... Backbreaker is kinda useless in pve as most monsters wont even need to be knockdown for that long.

TGgold · Dec 04, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernii

I noticed something... Armor of Earth is a 25 Energy requiring spell.
Basic Warriors have 20....
Now, I thought, life was more important than energy, in order to keep taking the damage?
Hence, I equipped my W with a heap of Vigor- and alike insignia...
Kill these, and put Energy ones instead?

Otherwise, Armor of Earth, would be a BIG nono... XD

Armor of Earth is 10 energy....but you really shouldn't be using it. Snaring a warrior is one of the best ways to reduce their effectiveness. The only reason people use flail is because they can cancel it with another stance.

LightningHell · Dec 05, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Stop the flaming.

On topic, no, Warriors aren't useless. They are one of the most flexible out of all the professions.

And to that Dervish stuff...let's say out of form Warriors win, and in form Dervishes win.

Savio · Dec 05, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Body blow is somewhat nifty when combined with brawling headbutt, dragon slash, and low blow. Otherwise, not so much.

That's a really awkward combo to use. A large chunk of your damage is armor-ignoring anyway, who cares about Cracked Armor enough to devote two skills and a portion of your time and adrenaline to inflict it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

The only reason people use flail is because they can cancel it with another stance.

No, people use Flail because their targets don't really move.

mrmango · Dec 05, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Why would you want to run Frenzy/Rush in PvE? Or Hundred Blades and Body Blow? Or Major runes?

I agree with the latter 2, but for PVE you use enraging/flail, I assume?

Savio · Dec 05, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

tbh, I've gone through normal mode in all of the campaigns with Frenzy/Rush because I was too lazy to change my bar. Most people should run Flail/Enraging instead, because movement penalties aren't significant in PvE.

mrmango · Dec 05, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

tbh, I've gone through normal mode in all of the campaigns with Frenzy/Rush because I was too lazy to change my bar. Most people should run Flail/Enraging instead, because movement penalties aren't significant in PvE.

Heh that's the same with me, I change weapons as I get bored from one, so I forget to change stances from my old templates.

Good thing I don't pvp much as a warrior.

LockerLoad · Dec 05, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

The op is correct in his perception that warriors are weaker now. However it's not due to nerfed warrior skills but buffed anti melee and the addition of Dervish and Assassins.

A warrior can't hit what he can't see, and with no condition removal(and ever more ways to blind) a blind warrior is useless. I know what your going to say, that's what a secondary profession is for. Odd that the warrior is the only profession to require a secondary for condition removal isn't it?

Blocking enchantments also make a warrior very ineffective. How much fun is it to save up for an adrenaline spike just to blow it on a guardian covered foe. With the new guardian buffs at 12 prot thats 6sec duration with a 2 sec cooldown for 5e. Compare that to the only Warrior block defeating skill Warrior's cunning with a 10 sec duration, 60 sec cooldown(WTF?!?) and 10e cost.

Warriors are gimped eos.

moriz · Dec 05, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

incorrect. the warrior is currently more powerful than it ever has. the only thing keeping them in check are the improved shutdown against them.

at least, it's true for those with some semblance of skill.

MercenaryK · Dec 05, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockerLoad

The op is correct in his perception that warriors are weaker now. However it's not due to nerfed warrior skills but buffed anti melee and the addition of Dervish and Assassins.

A warrior can't hit what he can't see, and with no condition removal(and ever more ways to blind) a blind warrior is useless. I know what your going to say, that's what a secondary profession is for. Odd that the warrior is the only profession to require a secondary for condition removal isn't it?

Blocking enchantments also make a warrior very ineffective. How much fun is it to save up for an adrenaline spike just to blow it on a guardian covered foe. With the new guardian buffs at 12 prot thats 6sec duration with a 2 sec cooldown for 5e. Compare that to the only Warrior block defeating skill Warrior's cunning with a 10 sec duration, 60 sec cooldown(WTF?!?) and 10e cost.

Warriors are gimped eos.

Mesmers, Elementalists, and Dervishes cannot remove conditions as well and rely upon a secondary to a condition removal.

Wild Blow destroys stances, and varying on your build, adrenaline will be easy to gain; My warrior had to spam Wild Blow when he could and was still able to gain adrenaline and use adrenaline skills in between the Wild Blows.

Also if you're unloading adrenaline attacks on someone that has Guardian on them, or a yellow up arrow and the words "Block" "Block" "Block" popping up and STILL using your adrenaline skills ..... it's time to delete your Warrior. Just switch targets, easy as that. Why waste time on some thing you cannot kill when there are other targets waiting to die?

LockerLoad · Dec 05, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

incorrect. the warrior is currently more powerful than it ever has. the only thing keeping them in check are the improved shutdown against them.

at least, it's true for those with some semblance of skill.

I'm interested in hearing what makes warriors more powerful now, would you please expand on that comment?

LockerLoad · Dec 05, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryK

Mesmers, Elementalists, and Dervishes cannot remove conditions as well and rely upon a secondary to a condition removal.

Wild Blow destroys stances, and varying on your build, adrenaline will be easy to gain; My warrior had to spam Wild Blow when he could and was still able to gain adrenaline and use adrenaline skills in between the Wild Blows.

Also if you're unloading adrenaline attacks on someone that has Guardian on them, or a yellow up arrow and the words "Block" "Block" "Block" popping up and STILL using your adrenaline skills ..... it's time to delete your Warrior. Just switch targets, easy as that. Why waste time on some thing you cannot kill when there are other targets waiting to die?

You are correct, I should have said that warriors are the only melee class w/o condition management.

Dervish have avatar of Melandru.

BTW I don't unload attack skills on a player I know is bocking.... so what exactly was your point? Just overstating the obvious?

Magikarp · Dec 05, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockerLoad

I'm interested in hearing what makes warriors more powerful now, would you please expand on that comment?

primarily build enhancements. warriors have been around since the dawn of time, and olny get better tricks and skills through the years.

AoM stops conditions for a brief period of time, congrats, but blind is the least of any melee classes problems anyhow.

a good warrior times his attacks, carries the motherload of utility skills, and is capable of more deadly, constant, instantaneous spikes and pressuring skills, than any other class in the game. dervishes lack team based, or even single target utility outside of a few crippling moves, in which are all very conditional for the most part, minus a few. warriors have an extremely large variation to their play styles and fighting capabilities, far beyond a derv, and a sin is just out of the question in the particular case.

warriors cunning is fine and all i guess, but there are other anti block skills in the game, and moreso, not as much of a reason to carry that sort of tool, seeing as warriors can switch targets, relay damage counts, and spike at the drop of a hat, all while having some of the nastiest skills equipped.

if you want to talk about AoM so much, watch any high end pvp, and see how many AoMs compared to shock axes there are, then watch the shock axe own his team, then when his form runs out, if he's still alive, kill the derv in 1 string of attacks.

AoM (D/A)

AoM
weary
erimites
fury
dash
op (dis dagger)
op (chilling/vic sweep)
res

thats pretty much the best skill bar you can ever see for a derv in competitive pvp, as compared to the top 10 warriors bars, and hundreds of just as good variants. an AoM derv has some nice skills, but lacks constant pressure, and moreso, the ability to be consistant. once AoM is down, you have a gimped member.

evis
ex
dis chop
bulls
frenzy
rush
shock
res

seems to me like 2 kds, anti kiting almost 100% of the time, active interupts, and a spike that can pull someone from 350 hp to zip is pretty good. idk what game you play, but you have a nasty chip on your shoulder.

LockerLoad · Dec 05, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

primarily build enhancements. warriors have been around since the dawn of time, and olny get better tricks and skills through the years.

AoM stops conditions for a brief period of time, congrats, but blind is the least of any melee classes problems anyhow.

a good warrior times his attacks, carries the motherload of utility skills, and is capable of more deadly, constant, instantaneous spikes and pressuring skills, than any other class in the game. dervishes lack team based, or even single target utility outside of a few crippling moves, in which are all very conditional for the most part, minus a few. warriors have an extremely large variation to their play styles and fighting capabilities, far beyond a derv, and a sin is just out of the question in the particular case.

warriors cunning is fine and all i guess, but there are other anti block skills in the game, and moreso, not as much of a reason to carry that sort of tool, seeing as warriors can switch targets, relay damage counts, and spike at the drop of a hat, all while having some of the nastiest skills equipped.

if you want to talk about AoM so much, watch any high end pvp, and see how many AoMs compared to shock axes there are, then watch the shock axe own his team, then when his form runs out, if he's still alive, kill the derv in 1 string of attacks.

AoM (D/A)

AoM
weary
erimites
fury
dash
op (dis dagger)
op (chilling/vic sweep)
res

thats pretty much the best skill bar you can ever see for a derv in competitive pvp, as compared to the top 10 warriors bars, and hundreds of just as good variants. an AoM derv has some nice skills, but lacks constant pressure, and moreso, the ability to be consistant. once AoM is down, you have a gimped member.

evis
ex
dis chop
bulls
frenzy
rush
shock
res

seems to me like 2 kds, anti kiting almost 100% of the time, active interupts, and a spike that can pull someone from 350 hp to zip is pretty good. idk what game you play, but you have a nasty chip on your shoulder.

Well now...

You haven't given any specific reasons why warriors are more powerful. The general catchall comments could be said for any of the original 6 classes. Please be specific.

I didn't ask to debate the merit's of Dervish vs Warrior, nor did I claim AoM was the end all be all skill, though I am glad you noted how sucky Warrior's cunning is.

My request was quite clear. Tell me how warriors are stronger now!

Magikarp · Dec 06, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockerLoad

Well now...

You haven't given any specific reasons why warriors are more powerful. The general catchall comments could be said for any of the original 6 classes. Please be specific.

I didn't ask to debate the merit's of Dervish vs Warrior, nor did I claim AoM was the end all be all skill, though I am glad you noted how sucky Warrior's cunning is.

My request was quite clear. Tell me how warriors are stronger now!

its pretty clear that i stated dervishes have roughly 1, maybe 2 viable options for use in pvp, where as the warrior has dozens. that alone makes the warrior a more benificial class. neither are more "powerful" than the other in terms of strength, but the warrior class offers far more team utility and synergy with other professions, where as the dervish is more of a selfish class, only offering a few sub-par healing skills, that are a major waste if you call yourself a melee class.

in terms of pve, you could run a blank bar and beat it, but a warrior offers tons of armor boosting, party-wide buffs, constant ready to fight, undying dps, and enough armor to back it all up, and keep ticking. they have many options for leading a team, and variations for different areas, making them far more versitile, and moreso, capable of soloing many different places.

the dervish can do a few of those things here and there, but overall, a warrior just has too much utility, where as a derv offers next to none, making the warrior (just as its ALWAYS been) the king of melee damage, and next to mesmer and monk, the most important class in pvp. dervishes will always just be runner up along with sins and rits, and while i dont really like dervishes, i see where they make a benificial sub-melee character, for a little support damage... if that was your last option and there were no more warriors to choose from.

ask any pro monk what melee class they fear.. heck... what ANY class they fear the most, and i bet derv wont make their top 3.